Sign in with your NHL account:
  • Submit
 
MapleLeafs.com proudly sponsored by ROGERS™ Welcome to the Official Site of Leafs Nation - MapleLeafs.com

Jump to content


Photo

The worst humiliation in Leafs history


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
32 replies to this topic

#1 loxcane1

loxcane1

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 17,651 posts

Posted 23 May 2009 - 12:33 AM

1972-1990.... just about every day in that period of time

#2 loxcane1

loxcane1

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 17,651 posts

Posted 31 May 2009 - 10:49 PM

QUOTE (spinner @ May 22 2009, 08:19 PM)

Not really. They had some good teams in the mid-to-late 70's.



I'm sure something sad and embarrassing happened in all of them with Harry around.

#3 spinner12

spinner12

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 21,583 posts

Posted 19 May 2009 - 08:06 PM

The worst humiliation I witnessed live was a 8-0 blowout in a playoff game, no less, against Detroit in 1988 (or was it 1989?). Anyway, I was sitting up in the greys and people were booing and throwing things on the ice. They were even taking off their Leaf jerseys, rolling them up and throwing them on the ice. I think it was THE lowest point in Harold Ballard's reign of terror.

It's always darkest before the dawn and sure enough, a few years later Pal Hal was dead and a new sheriff rode into town known in these parts as the Silver Fox.

#4 spinner12

spinner12

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 21,583 posts

Posted 20 May 2009 - 12:01 AM

QUOTE (seventieslord @ May 19 2009, 03:48 PM)

Spinner:

I actually thought this thread would be about that 1988 8-0 loss. But I don't think that game ranks among the worst handful of Leaf playoff losses for a couple reasons:


Hence the words, "that I witnessed live". wink.gif

QUOTE (seventieslord @ May 19 2009, 03:48 PM)

Given the circumstances I would rank the Leafs' 7th-game eliminations in 2001 and 2003 at the hands of the Devils and Flyers, plus game 6 in 2004, as far worse embarrassments. Adjusted for era, the goals against and margins of loss were larger, plus they were more important games, being played by a team who shouldn't have lost like they did.


Those were pretty bad but what made the 1988 loss worse, IMO, was that this game was symbolic of a decade of disaster. It was almost as though all the frustrations by fans had accumulated to this point and were let out all at once. They were actually tying their Leaf sweaters in a ball and throwing them on the ice. They were throwing cups filled with orange liquid onto the ice, trying to hit anything in blue and white. It wasn't just the score that was humiliating, it was the fans giving it to the team and I don't think anything is more humiliating than that.

#5 spinner12

spinner12

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 21,583 posts

Posted 20 May 2009 - 07:38 PM

QUOTE (seventieslord @ May 19 2009, 08:07 PM)

I didn't know that. That's too bad, actually. That team had a lot to like. Damphousse, Olczyk, Clarke, Iafrate, Leeman, Marois, Courtnall, Richardson. They were all very young and very promising (well, Marois and Leeman looked promising) - That team wasn't suffering from a lack of effort, the players just were too young and not experienced enough yet. It was Ballard plus years of terrible GMs, but the fans took it out on the players.

Sounds like Leafs fans!


Yeah, they had had enough. I guess some of the promise these young guys showed gave Leafs fans too high expectations and when they had a setback, it became a breaking point. Throw in the mob mentality of an emotional hockey crowd, and all it takes is a couple of boneheads to start throwing things before it escalates into something ugly.

edit: I have to disagree with your earlier post regarding an 8-0 loss being equivalent to a 4.5-0 loss of today. You cannot only adjust one side of the score and not the other. The difference between 8 goals and 0 goals was the same back then as it is today. It is a huge margin of victory for a hockey game, especially for a playoff game. It signifies that the team gave up which led to the fans' reaction.



#6 spinner12

spinner12

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 21,583 posts

Posted 22 May 2009 - 03:28 PM

QUOTE (seventieslord @ May 22 2009, 10:13 AM)

If you look at playoff scoring for those seasons you would see that a deficit of 7-8 goals is as common as a 4-5 goal deficit is now.

They're equally embarrassing, just aesthetically different.


And aesthetics go a long way toward humiliation, would you not agree? No one pulls out their calculator before deciding if they should be embarrassed or not.

QUOTE (Armster @ May 22 2009, 10:20 AM)

I can't remember exactly when but I recall watching a game where the Leafs lost to the Winnipeg Jets 11-1. Was only able to do a quick bit of research and can't find anything on it but that was brutal.


I remember that score too, and a 12-2 loss to Pittsburgh on a Boxing Day (some time in the 1990's, I believe). There was another 12 goal loss to Calgary but because those were all regular season games, the impact was not as much as a blowout in the playoffs.

#7 spinner12

spinner12

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 21,583 posts

Posted 22 May 2009 - 04:07 PM

QUOTE (seventieslord @ May 22 2009, 11:04 AM)

Not everyone stops and tries to put every little thing in context. I do. You usually do. Most people may automatically claim the 8-0 loss is the worst ever, but you and I have better perception than that. If you want to say that the 8-0 loss is perceived by most people as the worst loss ever, I would agree. But that doesn't mean it should be.


Perception is reality. Humiliation is not about what I think, it's how I look to others. I would rather lose 5-0 than 8-0, in any era.

#8 spinner12

spinner12

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 21,583 posts

Posted 23 May 2009 - 12:08 AM

QUOTE (seventieslord @ May 22 2009, 11:43 AM)

spinner's one of my few best friends on this board. We saw eye to eye on everything until the ATD. Now he just disagrees with me as a rule.


I disagree with that.

#9 spinner12

spinner12

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 21,583 posts

Posted 23 May 2009 - 01:19 AM

QUOTE (loxcane @ May 22 2009, 07:33 PM)

1972-1990.... just about every day in that period of time


Not really. They had some good teams in the mid-to-late 70's.

#10 spinner12

spinner12

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 21,583 posts

Posted 31 May 2009 - 10:59 PM

QUOTE (History man @ May 31 2009, 05:44 PM)

In my opinion, the most humiliating game in Leafs history has to be Game 5 of the 1944 semi-final. The Habs thumped them 11-0 and knocked them out of the playoffs rather convincingly. One of the reasons it has to be amongst the most humiliating is the fact that the Canadiens set NHL records that still stand today, 65 years later, including 7 goals in one period (3rd) of a playoff game.

Another pretty humiliating Leafs' game not yet mentioned was on March 19, 1981. The Leafs lost 14-4 to the Buffalo Sabres in a game which saw the Leafs give up an NHL record 9 goals in one period. No other team has ever done that. It's a record that might stand forever.

The Leafs have had their share. Just last season they lost 8-0 to Florida.


Those are pretty embarrassing to be sure.

#11 spinner12

spinner12

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 21,583 posts

Posted 01 June 2009 - 12:15 AM

QUOTE (History man @ May 31 2009, 07:10 PM)

This may be slightly off-topic, but the Leafs have also inflicted some humiliation as well. In Gordie Howe's last season with the Red Wings, the Leafs pummeled them 13-0. That massacre may have influenced Mr. Hockey's decision to retire, at least temporarily.

Also, on March 16, 1957, the Leafs beat the Rangers 14-1. Brian Cullen and Sid Smith both had hat tricks. It was games like this that lead N.Y. goalie Gump Worsley to be the most scored upon netminder of all-time until this past season.


That's good history, man.

#12 seventieslord

seventieslord

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 14,635 posts

Posted 19 May 2009 - 08:48 PM

Spinner:

I actually thought this thread would be about that 1988 8-0 loss. But I don't think that game ranks among the worst handful of Leaf playoff losses for a couple reasons:

1) The Leafs sucked and we all knew it. They were one of the worst teams to ever make the playoffs, they had 51 points and Minnesota had 50. The divisional playoff system facilitated this matchup. This was exactly what should have happened.

2) That was when the NHL was at the height of its offensive wave. 8-0 wasn't as bad as it is now. Especially in that playoff. Scoring in the playoffs hasn't approached the 3.64 level since. The closest it's come was 3.15 in 1993. It's actually the third-highest scoring playoff since the wonky pre-war years, just a hair behind 1981 and 1983.

I know we hear "adjust for era" all the time, but one could hear that and think "ok, so it's like 7-0, or maybe even 6..." But seeing actual figures may help put that into real perspective. 8 goals in the 1988 playoffs translates into 4.5 in a year like 2003 or 2004. That's not that bad.

Given the circumstances I would rank the Leafs' 7th-game eliminations in 2001 and 2003 at the hands of the Devils and Flyers, plus game 6 in 2004, as far worse embarrassments. Adjusted for era, the goals against and margins of loss were larger, plus they were more important games, being played by a team who shouldn't have lost like they did.

#13 seventieslord

seventieslord

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 14,635 posts

Posted 19 May 2009 - 09:21 PM

Sorry guys, that one was my fault. I didn't have center ice back then, I walked into the bar to watch this game from the 3rd period on, and the Leafs promptly allowed six goals. they were fine without me there.

#14 seventieslord

seventieslord

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 14,635 posts

Posted 20 May 2009 - 01:07 AM

I didn't know that. That's too bad, actually. That team had a lot to like. Damphousse, Olczyk, Clarke, Iafrate, Leeman, Marois, Courtnall, Richardson. They were all very young and very promising (well, Marois and Leeman looked promising) - That team wasn't suffering from a lack of effort, the players just were too young and not experienced enough yet. It was Ballard plus years of terrible GMs, but the fans took it out on the players.

Sounds like Leafs fans!

#15 seventieslord

seventieslord

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 14,635 posts

Posted 22 May 2009 - 03:13 PM

QUOTE (spinner @ May 20 2009, 01:38 PM)

edit: I have to disagree with your earlier post regarding an 8-0 loss being equivalent to a 4.5-0 loss of today. You cannot only adjust one side of the score and not the other. The difference between 8 goals and 0 goals was the same back then as it is today. It is a huge margin of victory for a hockey game, especially for a playoff game. It signifies that the team gave up which led to the fans' reaction.



If you look at playoff scoring for those seasons you would see that a deficit of 7-8 goals is as common as a 4-5 goal deficit is now.

They're equally embarrassing, just aesthetically different.

#16 seventieslord

seventieslord

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 14,635 posts

Posted 22 May 2009 - 04:04 PM

QUOTE (spinner @ May 22 2009, 09:28 AM)

And aesthetics go a long way toward humiliation, would you not agree? No one pulls out their calculator before deciding if they should be embarrassed or not.



Not everyone stops and tries to put every little thing in context. I do. You usually do. Most people may automatically claim the 8-0 loss is the worst ever, but you and I have better perception than that. If you want to say that the 8-0 loss is perceived by most people as the worst loss ever, I would agree. But that doesn't mean it should be.

#17 seventieslord

seventieslord

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 14,635 posts

Posted 22 May 2009 - 04:26 PM

OK. As long as you know that losing 8-0 in 1988 is the same thing as losing 5-0 in 2002.

#18 seventieslord

seventieslord

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 14,635 posts

Posted 22 May 2009 - 04:43 PM

spinner's one of my few best friends on this board. We saw eye to eye on everything until the ATD. Now he just disagrees with me as a rule.

#19 Coach_Gipper

Coach_Gipper

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,390 posts

Posted 05 June 2009 - 05:47 PM

The day was February 12, 1984. The Hartford Whalers were, as always, on their way to a last place finish, while the Edmonton Oilers were on their way to the Cup. Then, this unthinkable beating happened. Ron Francis scored 4 times as the Whalers pummeled the Oilers 11-0 in one of-possibly THE-worst losses in the history of a Cup-winning team.

#20 ModGod

ModGod

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 9,064 posts

Posted 22 May 2009 - 11:02 AM

QUOTE (seventieslord @ May 19 2009, 08:07 PM)

I didn't know that. That's too bad, actually. That team had a lot to like. Damphousse, Olczyk, Clarke, Iafrate, Leeman, Marois, Courtnall, Richardson. They were all very young and very promising (well, Marois and Leeman looked promising) - That team wasn't suffering from a lack of effort, the players just were too young and not experienced enough yet. It was Ballard plus years of terrible GMs, but the fans took it out on the players.

Sounds like Leafs fans!


well...it's much easier to throw drinks and jerseys down to the ice than up to the press box.






torontomapleleafs.com is the official Web site of the Toronto Maple Leafs Hockey Club. The Maple Leafs and mapleleafs.com are trademarks of MLSE.  NHL, the NHL Shield, the word mark and image of the Stanley Cup and NHL Conference logos are registered trademarks of the National Hockey League. All NHL logos and marks and NHL team logos and marks as well as all other proprietary materials depicted herein are the property of the NHL and the respective NHL teams and may not be reproduced without the prior written consent of NHL Enterprises, L.P. Copyright © 1999-2013 MLSE and the National Hockey League. All Rights Reserved.


Terms Of Use | Contact Us | Employment Opportunities | Advertise on mapleleafs.com | Privacy Policy | AdChoices | NHL.com Terms of Use | Site Map