I realize this idea won't get much, if any, support but its a move I would be thrilled with if Burke were to do it.
TSN has in their rumor report today that the Panthers (though comments made by Weiss) are/might be looking to make an addition to make sure they win their division and make a playoff push.
The Leafs are a team with some good (not great) talent, but as we're seeing even with that talent playnig as good as they ever have, they ar ea bubble team and will only improve if/when Burke can get some more top talent from other teams, which isn't always easy and/or possible. The Panthers are a team with some exceptional young talent.
Leafs
Jonathan Huberdeau
Quinton Howden
Panthers
Phil Kessel
No one will like this idea but.......
Started by
sluggo
, Feb 21 2012 03:48 PM
22 replies to this topic
#3
sluggo
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Posted 21 February 2012 - 04:06 PM
Nope. Then we have to go out and get a first line winger ALL over again.
Huberdeau and Howden would be guys you would put a lot of stock/hope into.
Its a "take 1 step back to take 2 steps forward" kind of move.
It won't happen, Burke won't do it......just something that popped in my head when I read that on TSN. If Burke can't (and its not a forgone conclusion he will be able too) add the kind of talent he needs/wants to add how long will this team be a bubble team, and for how long is that ok?
You never see Coke taking a shot at Pepsi
#5
oldmanleafer
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Posted 21 February 2012 - 04:26 PM
So sluggo how long you been a Panthers fan, I mean 2 unproven prospects for Kessel give me a break. Are they better than the package the Leafs paid for an unproven Kessel .NO
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#6
FreemanMapleLeaf
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Posted 21 February 2012 - 04:31 PM
Trading Phil Kessel would be a mistake - stop trying to trade him. Embrace the Kessel. Be one with the Kessel. At least Kessel can score and he's starting to backcheck more. Seriously, at 3rd in the league on goals and 5th in the league on points, what more do you want from Kessel? Does he need to improve defensively? No more than the rest of the team.
This is a team game - trading our best goal-scorer will not fix our problems and will only hurt us in the long run.
FML
This is a team game - trading our best goal-scorer will not fix our problems and will only hurt us in the long run.
FML
#8
howiegethere
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Posted 21 February 2012 - 05:05 PM
No secret that I don't like Kessel but no way I would trade him for a young hopefull . I would trade him in a deal for Nash though .I realize this idea won't get much, if any, support but its a move I would be thrilled with if Burke were to do it.
TSN has in their rumor report today that the Panthers (though comments made by Weiss) are/might be looking to make an addition to make sure they win their division and make a playoff push.
The Leafs are a team with some good (not great) talent, but as we're seeing even with that talent playnig as good as they ever have, they ar ea bubble team and will only improve if/when Burke can get some more top talent from other teams, which isn't always easy and/or possible. The Panthers are a team with some exceptional young talent.
Leafs
Jonathan Huberdeau
Quinton Howden
Panthers
Phil Kessel
#9
howiegethere
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Posted 21 February 2012 - 05:10 PM
Trading Kessel for a big capable forward that can score when the going gets tough is a mistake I could live with .Trading Phil Kessel would be a mistake - stop trying to trade him. Embrace the Kessel. Be one with the Kessel. At least Kessel can score and he's starting to backcheck more. Seriously, at 3rd in the league on goals and 5th in the league on points, what more do you want from Kessel? Does he need to improve defensively? No more than the rest of the team.
This is a team game - trading our best goal-scorer will not fix our problems and will only hurt us in the long run.
FML
#10
metallicarocks65
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Posted 21 February 2012 - 05:15 PM
At this point, I would actually consider packaging Kessel for Nash..the thinking being, as you say is that Kessel can score with the right play makers..Nash on the other hand can hit, score and play make. A lot more flexible than Kessel...but, the fact remains Kessel is a leading scorer in the NHL and do we really want to part with him?Trading Kessel for a big capable forward that can score when the going gets tough is a mistake I could live with .
#12
Maplers
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Posted 21 February 2012 - 05:48 PM
In one thread you propose a deal to bring in vets, and in the next you propose to tear it down and bring in rookies...which is it Sluggo? Starting to sound like JFJr....trade for a young guy, then trade for a bunch of old guys..back and forth... What's the plan? Tear it down? build it up?
#13
youngbud
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Posted 21 February 2012 - 05:52 PM
I know what you are trying to say sluggo. Fans are impatient, and even burke must be getting impatient knowing that fans will not exactly let him rest on his laurels, and he more or less has a gun against his head (poor Toronto GM's) to pull off a BIG trade and continue to make the team better and better.
I would be perfectly fine with the leafs doing a properly rebuild if and only if the fans, players, coaches, etc could all be on the same page and simply be patient and accept that. The problem (as Burke has stated many times) is it seems like we just cannot forgive this team for something that occurred over 40 years ago. 1967! Get over it! This it the 2000's now, it's a totally different style of game now, we can't go backwards. It must be daunting for the players and staff to have that weight coupled with trade deadline day, and fan pressure and their own expectations hanging over their head all the time. No wonder they look defeated some days, confidence is a big thing in this game!
I guess what I'm saying is that would the fans be willing to sacrifice talent for future? Would leaf fans be willing to put up with years of basement level finishes to see us finally rise up and win a cup in 10 years from that point? Or do we keep pieces of the puzzle that are working and continue to chip away and add what we need that way? Is there really a right or wrong way to build a winning team? As long as the points are there and you win who are we to argue?
This is a young leaf team. I could be wrong but they need more balance. Right now the veterans on our team have what 3, 4, 5 years nhl experience? It's just not enough experience. In a few years we could see huge improvements but we got to be willing to stick to our prospects and not throw them away before we know what we have. Do we really want to say: Kadri, Schenn, Colborne, Gardiner we barely knew ye? Only to see them shine somewhere else?
So many decisions, so many questions, and even harder to answer. I don't know what the correct course is, but certainly we are not in a position to make trades for the sake of making trades. We are in a position to move picks and prospects for proven nhl talent if we think that's what this team needs to go to the next level...problem is we have done that before and where has it gotten us?
The leafs are truly damned if they do and damned if they don't and that is a stumbling block in itself. We add veterans and they don't play up to their potential and we will never hear the end of it. We give up picks/prospects and we still struggle we never hear the end of it. We stand pat and miss the playoffs, we never hear the end of it. What to do?
I would be perfectly fine with the leafs doing a properly rebuild if and only if the fans, players, coaches, etc could all be on the same page and simply be patient and accept that. The problem (as Burke has stated many times) is it seems like we just cannot forgive this team for something that occurred over 40 years ago. 1967! Get over it! This it the 2000's now, it's a totally different style of game now, we can't go backwards. It must be daunting for the players and staff to have that weight coupled with trade deadline day, and fan pressure and their own expectations hanging over their head all the time. No wonder they look defeated some days, confidence is a big thing in this game!
I guess what I'm saying is that would the fans be willing to sacrifice talent for future? Would leaf fans be willing to put up with years of basement level finishes to see us finally rise up and win a cup in 10 years from that point? Or do we keep pieces of the puzzle that are working and continue to chip away and add what we need that way? Is there really a right or wrong way to build a winning team? As long as the points are there and you win who are we to argue?
This is a young leaf team. I could be wrong but they need more balance. Right now the veterans on our team have what 3, 4, 5 years nhl experience? It's just not enough experience. In a few years we could see huge improvements but we got to be willing to stick to our prospects and not throw them away before we know what we have. Do we really want to say: Kadri, Schenn, Colborne, Gardiner we barely knew ye? Only to see them shine somewhere else?
So many decisions, so many questions, and even harder to answer. I don't know what the correct course is, but certainly we are not in a position to make trades for the sake of making trades. We are in a position to move picks and prospects for proven nhl talent if we think that's what this team needs to go to the next level...problem is we have done that before and where has it gotten us?
The leafs are truly damned if they do and damned if they don't and that is a stumbling block in itself. We add veterans and they don't play up to their potential and we will never hear the end of it. We give up picks/prospects and we still struggle we never hear the end of it. We stand pat and miss the playoffs, we never hear the end of it. What to do?
#15
racer888
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Posted 21 February 2012 - 09:53 PM
Get a number one goalie and a coach that is a little more defencive minded and let it ride untill we see what the young guys can do. Usually scoring has not been the problem. Keeping the damm puck out of our own net has
#17
MaximumTaco
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Posted 22 February 2012 - 09:52 PM
I realize this idea won't get much, if any, support but its a move I would be thrilled with if Burke were to do it.
TSN has in their rumor report today that the Panthers (though comments made by Weiss) are/might be looking to make an addition to make sure they win their division and make a playoff push.
The Leafs are a team with some good (not great) talent, but as we're seeing even with that talent playnig as good as they ever have, they ar ea bubble team and will only improve if/when Burke can get some more top talent from other teams, which isn't always easy and/or possible. The Panthers are a team with some exceptional young talent.
Leafs
Jonathan Huberdeau
Quinton Howden
Panthers
Phil Kessel
It's actually a pretty interesting idea. I like both of those players and they both have huge upside.
I don't think we're getting fair value for Kessel though, might need to sweeten that deal for us a little.
You are right that it'll never happen though.
"But I don't want to go among mad people," Alice remarked.
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "otherwise you wouldn't have come here."
~ An excerpt from Alice's Adventures in Leafland
"Oh, you can't help that," said the Cat: "We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad."
"How do you know I'm mad?" said Alice.
"You must be," said the Cat, "otherwise you wouldn't have come here."
~ An excerpt from Alice's Adventures in Leafland
#19
Cobra777
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Posted 23 February 2012 - 10:46 PM
RoflmaoTrading Phil Kessel would be a mistake - stop trying to trade him. Embrace the Kessel. Be one with the Kessel. At least Kessel can score and he's starting to backcheck more. Seriously, at 3rd in the league on goals and 5th in the league on points, what more do you want from Kessel? Does he need to improve defensively? No more than the rest of the team.
This is a team game - trading our best goal-scorer will not fix our problems and will only hurt us in the long run.
FML
#20
jgf
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Posted 24 February 2012 - 08:55 PM
If there's a chance we have to compete (as we are today) against Wpg and FLA for the last playoff spot, I don't trade anyone from the Leafs to the Panthers, unless its Gustaffson in net (LOL)
Wpg won't make any major moves cause they are playing well...and won't disrupt the progress or their room. FLA will have to go fishing somewhere else. In FLA, He's the ex Chicago GM, so he's always looking for the deal to put himself in position to be successful. he knows the drill all too well and is very good at it. Just look at how he turned that team around since arriving from Chicago and in a VERY short time frame I might add. Not a multi term, 5 year plan like here in Toronto.
Who would I trade Kessel for, hmmmm Maybe Nash. Straight up. But that's a lot of goals to give up...however, if I think BIG picture, Kessel just may not do much in the playoffs, because its very tight checking, in your face, crash and bang hockey, always has been, so he may be easily neutralized.
Nash won't be. But, you would have to likely bring on some goals back to Toronto in another trade - aka Dustin Brown, Ott, Moen to get the overall goals (law of averages) back to cover off potential goals shortage that Kessel leaves. PLUS there is always the room factor, and if Lupul and kessel are close, and have chemistry they seem to have, how long is the learning curve going to be, for these other guys playing with Lupul ....hopefully not weeks, but mere days...
Wpg won't make any major moves cause they are playing well...and won't disrupt the progress or their room. FLA will have to go fishing somewhere else. In FLA, He's the ex Chicago GM, so he's always looking for the deal to put himself in position to be successful. he knows the drill all too well and is very good at it. Just look at how he turned that team around since arriving from Chicago and in a VERY short time frame I might add. Not a multi term, 5 year plan like here in Toronto.
Who would I trade Kessel for, hmmmm Maybe Nash. Straight up. But that's a lot of goals to give up...however, if I think BIG picture, Kessel just may not do much in the playoffs, because its very tight checking, in your face, crash and bang hockey, always has been, so he may be easily neutralized.
Nash won't be. But, you would have to likely bring on some goals back to Toronto in another trade - aka Dustin Brown, Ott, Moen to get the overall goals (law of averages) back to cover off potential goals shortage that Kessel leaves. PLUS there is always the room factor, and if Lupul and kessel are close, and have chemistry they seem to have, how long is the learning curve going to be, for these other guys playing with Lupul ....hopefully not weeks, but mere days...
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