20 replies to this topic

[Tigon]

We heard the mid-season rumours of JVR for Schenn. I'm not in favour of giving up on young defensemen, especially when they are entering the years when they start to blossom, going into the mid-20s.

I would be interested in revisiting this trade if we could get Bobrovsky as well. Luongo may or may not be available. Thomas probably won't be and is 40 already. Kipper isn't a long-term solution and would probably cost the most to acquire. Bernier and Lindback are unproven. Bobrovsky clearly won't get a chance behind Bryz so it makes sense to to try to get him with JVR if the Leafs revisit this.

Bobrovsky would certainly give Reimer a run for the starters role and we would have a good 1A/B situation if Reimer rebounds.

I would assume the trade would start with Schenn and Scrivens. Would you guys be interested in this trade, JVR and Bobrovsky, and what more do you think it would take to get the deal completed?

[Maplers]

Why is Bobrovsky any more proven than Lindback and Bernier? The only thing Bobrovsky has proven is he can't hold down an NHL starting role....I don't see how this solves our goaltending problems. Plus, why give up a goalie in Scrivens that could very well end up being better than Bobrovsky. It's got Tuuka Rask written all over it..

[J-BOLD]

I don't see the big hype around JVR. I wouldnt trade Schenn for him straight up.

I just don't see why there's so much hype around him. I don't watch him enough, so anyone care to explain?

[H-B-C-Y-G]

I don't know. If they're getting Pronger back, they'll have a pretty hefty blueline again. After that they might be just stuck there hoping Bryzgalov stops bombing in the playoffs.

Timmonen
Pronger
Mezaros
Carle
Cobourn
Grossman
Bourdon/Lilja/Gustafsson/Maybe Kubina

Unless it's a bigger deal and we get a D man from them for someone else.

[Kadrix43]

ummm... Yeah JVR has tons of potential... The hype around JVR is huge because of this:

Hes got size
Hes a great two way winger
Good forechecker, uses stick and body well although not overly physical
very fast for his size
great shot and quick release
Hes got heart and drive
good at protecting the puck down low
can be a good playmaker when he thinks pass first

hes got all the tools, hes just been injured on a philly team with tons of offensive talent allways getting power play time over him... once he gets confidence he will be a 35-40 goal scoring solid two way winger...this is my opinion, when you watch him play you see the star quality in him. He beats players he does the right things he gets chances he just cant put it all together... Only thing is we have tons of wingers already... And honestly i love Schenn, i like the idea of being a team whos strength is a really strong defense core with grit and skill. So im not for trading Schenn, although i think Bobrovski will be a really good goalie too. So for both of them i would have to say yes... although philly would never do that trade... Bobrovski is 23 and he has shown lots of talent, goalies dont blossom until 25-27 in my opinion, with a few exceptions.

Im hoping we draft Dumba and make our top 4 d core moving forward Phaneuf Gardiner Schenn and Dumba. Build around that solid d core with a solid scoring winger in Kessel try to get a good top line center and hope Reimer pulls it through if not find another goalie... And keep around all our guys with grit...We got good prospects in the systems who can fill holes in our lineup very soon and bring different aspects like work ethic and grit to our team.

[Kadrix43]

if i didnt really believe in Schenn i would say we should make the trade, but i think once our team is doing well and we have some more grit and leadership and non shacky goaltending Schenn will start to blossom... Defensive d men dont blossom until 25ish.

[Topleft11]

I just think we need to work on our offence. jvr would be a great second line winger kinda perfect, I mean better then a penner. If we picked up clowe and jvr offensive job pretty much done (size grit). through in Getzlaf I could relax for a couple of years. Finally one stay at home defenseman and lets role. oh yea and a goalie he he he.

[Topleft11]

I really think Gustafson is a lot more mature and better then reimer. I could live with him and bobrovski. I love monster Gs heart hes true blue sign him. Reimer aint got it to me ( but well see). Wilson screwed gustafsons game plus (to me) jake gardiners lack of d also cost him a few games.

[youngbud]

Why does everyone have a problem with giving up schenn? He's been here 4 years and he hasn't exactly become paul coffey or bobby orr has he? Schenn is not that great, we really seem to have a problem in Toronto of OVERHYPING young players, like kadri (in the beginning anyhow), schenn, even Gardiner, I like the guy but he is a rookie. In the past it was Wellwood, Coliacovo, Steen, Stajan, Tlusty...good lord look what happened to those guys, relegated to loser status with loser clubs.

If I could include schenn in a trade for someone who I KNOW is a better player, I'd do it in a heartbeat, I wouldn't even think about it. Again I'll ask, where is schenn's upside? What exactly has he done in 4 years now to make you think he is going to suddenly break out and wow us all? I'm telling you we WASTED 4 years right there, when we could have gone out and hired a proven d-man. Instead we got a guy who thinks he is a top 4 dman, who started playing with us when he was 18 and should have spent those 4 years in the MINORS DEVELOPING HIS GAME.

Schenn is a MINOR leaguer on a BIG LEAGUE TEAM.

[Tigon]

Scrivens has a dozen games experience (4-5-2 and a relief loss to Gus' stats) and Bobrovsky played almost a whole season as a started (54 games) plus he played another as a back-up (29 games) collecting a 42-23-10 record, how can you say he is worse or on the same level as Scrivens? Seeing how Scrivens is turning 26, he would have to be given his chance now to prove to be an NHLer because he will be a UFA sooner than we hoped. Seeing how management want to bring in experience, I doubt Scrivens will get his shot in Toronto. Bobrovsky is 23 so age is on his side as well as experience, something the bodes well for Toronto.

So unless we see Reimer/Scrivens next season or the season after at the latest, I doubt Scrivens will be getting his chance anytime soon. I doubt people want to see that after 7 years without the playoffs and Burke would use that as a last option as tandem.

Sure losing Schenn sucks but when the return is JVR, I'd gladly do it. We have pieces to replace Schenn. Franson would get in the line-up consistently and Holzer is ready and plays a better shutdown role. Plus the Leafs could pursue Schultz this offseason.

Still Scrivens won't be getting a real shot, we might as well cash in on him to get a potential starter. Scrivens most likely would get the back-up job in Philly.

Most people don't believe Carle will be resigned. He would cost too much with the contracts already in place and then there is the question of IF Pronger will even return or retire. After that interview with his brother, I think we just may see Pronger call it a career to save his health and enjoy his life.

Bernier and Lindback would be much more costly to acquire and it would be easier to try to get Bobrosky in a deal that is already taking place if the Schenn-JVR trade is revisited plus he is a back-up behind Bryz career deal. I'm not disputing Bernier is the best option here but when the price would be Schenn/Kadri, Scrivens and probably our 5th overall as a starting point, I'd rather just not make that deal. Lindback (16-13-2) hasn't played that much behind Rinne so he is more up in the air, plus he could be benefiting from the Preds defensive style.

[PuQ]

Why does everyone have a problem with giving up schenn? He's been here 4 years and he hasn't exactly become paul coffey or bobby orr has he? Schenn is not that great, we really seem to have a problem in Toronto of OVERHYPING young players, like kadri (in the beginning anyhow), schenn, even Gardiner, I like the guy but he is a rookie. In the past it was Wellwood, Coliacovo, Steen, Stajan, Tlusty...good lord look what happened to those guys, relegated to loser status with loser clubs.

If I could include schenn in a trade for someone who I KNOW is a better player, I'd do it in a heartbeat, I wouldn't even think about it. Again I'll ask, where is schenn's upside? What exactly has he done in 4 years now to make you think he is going to suddenly break out and wow us all? I'm telling you we WASTED 4 years right there, when we could have gone out and hired a proven d-man. Instead we got a guy who thinks he is a top 4 dman, who started playing with us when he was 18 and should have spent those 4 years in the MINORS DEVELOPING HIS GAME.

Schenn is a MINOR leaguer on a BIG LEAGUE TEAM.

History has shown us that his style of D man doesent come into his own unil around the mid 20's

I'm sure that is why most people cringe at the thought of giving up on him now.

That and the fact that this team has given up on players too early in the recent past, putting us in the position we were in when Burke took over.

[Euronuck]

In response to Tigon, every goalie is a mystery. Mike Smith at 26 got 13 stars with the Lightning and was 3-10, then the next years 14-18, 13-18, 13-6(1-4 in the AHL) and then this year 38-18.

Another example Brian Elliot, 16-8, 29-18, 15-27, 23-10... I can keep going on. A goaltender has many aspects to be successful in the NHL. The majority of which is the defense playing in front of him.

[AlexanderTheGreatJr]

Why does everyone have a problem with giving up schenn? He's been here 4 years and he hasn't exactly become paul coffey or bobby orr has he? Schenn is not that great, we really seem to have a problem in Toronto of OVERHYPING young players, like kadri (in the beginning anyhow), schenn, even Gardiner, I like the guy but he is a rookie. In the past it was Wellwood, Coliacovo, Steen, Stajan, Tlusty...good lord look what happened to those guys, relegated to loser status with loser clubs.

If I could include schenn in a trade for someone who I KNOW is a better player, I'd do it in a heartbeat, I wouldn't even think about it. Again I'll ask, where is schenn's upside? What exactly has he done in 4 years now to make you think he is going to suddenly break out and wow us all? I'm telling you we WASTED 4 years right there, when we could have gone out and hired a proven d-man. Instead we got a guy who thinks he is a top 4 dman, who started playing with us when he was 18 and should have spent those 4 years in the MINORS DEVELOPING HIS GAME.

Schenn is a MINOR leaguer on a BIG LEAGUE TEAM.

Hey me and you are the same, we're like brothers.

With the exception of Steen and Wellwood who has gone on and done well, even those 2 aren't your clutch type players.
Toronto way overhypes everything to a point where if the players don't perform to what they are all hyped up about then they drop the bomb on those players.

Its exactly my point about Schenn, they expected him right away to be a big difference.
But the scouts on every team has him figured out and its not that good.
I've never seen so many opposeing players game after game skate around and beat a defensemen like they do on Schenn ever.
It's a very hard pressing issue in this off season, i perosnally think Gustavsson and Reimer are the less problems the Leafs had last season, especially very late of it when the Leafs couldn't score anymore.
You can't expect Kessel to score 82 goals a year in 82 games.
So when the Leafs went on a scoreing drought, the goalie's especially Gustavsson held the ground like he did in January and Reimer in late 10/11 season.
The Leafs defense were exposed big time.

Ron Wilson took the positives he had and made it happen, unfortuantely it ran its course.
And the Defense gave out on him.

[youngbud]

Okay. I have no problem agreeing to that, schenn is young obviously and maybe he will hit his stride later. But, given we are 7 years with no playoffs at all, and not exactly improving that much, do you really want to just stand around and wait for schenn ot magically flip the switch and get better and HIS HIS STRIDE? Like I said he's already had 4 years to do something at this level. I'm telling you we bought him here too early, now we are paying for it, with his silly mistakes, costly give aways, poor skating, and yes thank you alexandertheGreat (Mogilny was a great guy btw), for saying what I have seen many times. Schenn gets beaten badly, either deked out or can't skate the puck out.

Now other of our d made mistakes too, but he is billed as a punishing stay at home d man who can hit, and I can't believe how many times I saw guys blow right by him and he'd be on the ice for a goal against! Maybe Schenn will surprise me and with the skating coach and new conditioning regimen that carlyle wants, he will come back with a vengeance and look better but I'm not holding my breath either!

[howiegethere]

Good greif man JVR is a glassman like Connolly and Bobrovsky couldn't stop a beachball with a sheet of plywood straped to his rear . The Leafs need upgrades not cast offs and wanna bees .

[PuQ]

Okay. I have no problem agreeing to that, schenn is young obviously and maybe he will hit his stride later. But, given we are 7 years with no playoffs at all, and not exactly improving that much, do you really want to just stand around and wait for schenn ot magically flip the switch and get better and HIS HIS STRIDE? Like I said he's already had 4 years to do something at this level. I'm telling you we bought him here too early, now we are paying for it, with his silly mistakes, costly give aways, poor skating, and yes thank you alexandertheGreat (Mogilny was a great guy btw), for saying what I have seen many times. Schenn gets beaten badly, either deked out or can't skate the puck out.

Now other of our d made mistakes too, but he is billed as a punishing stay at home d man who can hit, and I can't believe how many times I saw guys blow right by him and he'd be on the ice for a goal against! Maybe Schenn will surprise me and with the skating coach and new conditioning regimen that carlyle wants, he will come back with a vengeance and look better but I'm not holding my breath either!

For a point of refference, you could simply have a look through history and see what ages some of the better shut down Dmen emerged.

That will either help prove your point or it will give you some insight to when we can logically expect him to reach potential.

Afterall, you wouldnt want to judge him unfairly just to prove you were right would you?

[youngbud]

Philly is clearly hurting in goal and so are we. I'm not so sure I would want to swap goaltenders or even pick up a goalie from a team that is not happy with their goalie situation anyhow.

[PuQ]

Philly is clearly hurting in goal and so are we. I'm not so sure I would want to swap goaltenders or even pick up a goalie from a team that is not happy with their goalie situation anyhow.

Seeing contracts like Bryz's sure makes me happy about Burkes stance on those kind of contracts.

[racer888]

For a point of refference, you could simply have a look through history and see what ages some of the better shut down Dmen emerged.

That will either help prove your point or it will give you some insight to when we can logically expect him to reach potential.

Afterall, you wouldnt want to judge him unfairly just to prove you were right would you?

What would the names of those D-men be?

[PuQ]

What would the names of those D-men be?

If I told you, we would get sidetracked into a conversation about who we think are the better Dmen.