84 replies to this topic

[Euronuck]

I agree.

Although I'm very happy to see the Marlies doing well; I don't think that will automatically translate into future success for the Leafs.

I think the Leafs have a flawed core( assembled by Burke); and are missing MANY important pieces.

Imagine having a core made up of Hall, Eberle, and Nugent-Hopkins; and Tambellini did that without any fancy deals. Those players just dropped into his lap.

All that talent yet they still end up in last place. What postiives do tehy have to look forward too= Are the defensive prospects that good= Dubnyk is a bust already. I know of no other goalie in the system they see as making a jump. A wonderful high drafted skilled player needs the pieces around him to succeed. The oilers so far in multiple season have yet to acheive this. When are tehy going to turn the corner or become playoff contenders. Anyone please fill me in here, hell for all I care pass the info on to Burke. Cause Tambellini is the man with the plan... that always gets him into last place.

[jockdent]

All that talent yet they still end up in last place. What postiives do tehy have to look forward too= Are the defensive prospects that good= Dubnyk is a bust already. I know of no other goalie in the system they see as making a jump. A wonderful high drafted skilled player needs the pieces around him to succeed. The oilers so far in multiple season have yet to acheive this. When are tehy going to turn the corner or become playoff contenders. Anyone please fill me in here, hell for all I care pass the info on to Burke. Cause Tambellini is the man with the plan... that always gets him into last place.

You preach to be patient with Burke; and yet you have no patience with Tambellini.

Tambellini is doing it the right way.

Burke has assembled a bunch of ancillary parts, to which he must add a solid core. He is now realizing how diffucult it is to acquire those important core players.

Tambellini, on the other hand, has acquired those difficult core parts where they are easiest to find, namely, in the draft.

Tha ancillary parts are not needed yet; and that's why they are finishing last.

When the time is right, those parts will be easy to get; and the team will come together very quickly, very quickly indeed.

[Topleft11]

All that talent yet they still end up in last place. What postiives do tehy have to look forward too= Are the defensive prospects that good= Dubnyk is a bust already. I know of no other goalie in the system they see as making a jump. A wonderful high drafted skilled player needs the pieces around him to succeed. The oilers so far in multiple season have yet to acheive this. When are tehy going to turn the corner or become playoff contenders. Anyone please fill me in here, hell for all I care pass the info on to Burke. Cause Tambellini is the man with the plan... that always gets him into last place.

Yea were bitchin here about are team. Imagine with the talent pool Edmontons had, im sure there fans arent happy but I dont see them playing arm chair Gm like we do here. Example for the past 3 years Colorado has claimed high praise for almost making the playoffs but we view them as a good team whos young and will inevitably become playoff regulars. Anyone could Gm an Edmonton for the same reasons Jockdent said they just picked the players that fell in there lap. Unless they move someone or make a REAL Gm move for Defence theyll continue to be a pipsqueek team with a lot of small good players.

[Fready]

Agreed. Even though I am a huge kadri fan I look at the marlies line up to see who there will be a star for the leafs and I can't see who that will be. Maybe I am missing something. Does anyone else see any stars on the marlies or am I correct in my assessement that they are a well coached hard working bunch with a good AHL almost NHL goalie

I think Frattin will be a very good player for the leafs for years to come. Other than that, the rest are big question marks. Holzer could fill a 3rd pairing role on the leafs, only problem is making room.

[Poyetas]

I think Frattin will be a very good player for the leafs for years to come. Other than that, the rest are big question marks. Holzer could fill a 3rd pairing role on the leafs, only problem is making room.

You're totally right about making room. I agree with almost everything you post Fready, but I see Frattin's upside as being rather limited. He's pretty much the same age as Kulemin and I would take Kulemin in a heartbeat over him. That being said, I would rather see Frattin up with the Leafs than Armstrong, Lombardi, Crabb or Steckel....

[racer888]

I think Frattin will be a very good player for the leafs for years to come. Other than that, the rest are big question marks. Holzer could fill a 3rd pairing role on the leafs, only problem is making room.

Agreed as I am starting to like Fratten more and more. I hope he can take the next step and translate his good work in the Ahl to the leafs

[Euronuck]

Yea were bitchin here about are team. Imagine with the talent pool Edmontons had, im sure there fans arent happy but I dont see them playing arm chair Gm like we do here. Example for the past 3 years Colorado has claimed high praise for almost making the playoffs but we view them as a good team whos young and will inevitably become playoff regulars. Anyone could Gm an Edmonton for the same reasons Jockdent said they just picked the players that fell in there lap. Unless they move someone or make a REAL Gm move for Defence theyll continue to be a pipsqueek team with a lot of small good players.

Edmonton really needs some guys with size and grit. Yes they have all these amazing high draft picks but the amount of injuries these guys are taking is hurting them. Plus add to the fact that next year a majority of these draft picks are gonna be signing big contracts. As for Colorado they also are in flux. Plus Duchene the high draft pick they had has been tossed around in a few trade rumours from them as well. Everyone in this league has it's issues. To think we are the only team missing a few pieces here or there to make a decent go during the playoffs is silly.

[jigson]

You preach to be patient with Burke; and yet you have no patience with Tambellini.

Tambellini is doing it the right way.

Burke has assembled a bunch of ancillary parts, to which he must add a solid core. He is now realizing how diffucult it is to acquire those important core players.

Tambellini, on the other hand, has acquired those difficult core parts where they are easiest to find, namely, in the draft.

Tha ancillary parts are not needed yet; and that's why they are finishing last.

When the time is right, those parts will be easy to get; and the team will come together very quickly, very quickly indeed.

So JD, you're giving Tambo credit for picking high in the draft?

Isn't that the easiest possible task to accomplish?

I'll give him credit for grabbing Eberle @ 22nd, for being a great pick.

But really, how hard is it to choose Hall, who almost every person on the planet who watches hockey agrees he is the best player to pick #1, and have a safety net in Seguin if you go that route.

THen same thing with Hopkins....

Look at some of his other recent selections..

Schremp, Dubnyk, Gagner, Cogliano, etc...

The one pick that deserves praise is Peckam @ 75th. Great pick.

To propose that Tambo has done a better job than Burke because he was fortunate to have a couple of easy choice 1st overall picks land in his lap is a stretch.

This also goes to Burke comments in regards to Crosby. The pens won a lottery and the best player in the world fell into their laps.

Didn't take much hockey savvy to say " With our first selection in this years draft, the Pittsburg Penguins choose Sidney Crosby."

[jockdent]

So JD, you're giving Tambo credit for picking high in the draft?

Isn't that the easiest possible task to accomplish?

I'll give him credit for grabbing Eberle @ 22nd, for being a great pick.

But really, how hard is it to choose Hall, who almost every person on the planet who watches hockey agrees he is the best player to pick #1, and have a safety net in Seguin if you go that route.

THen same thing with Hopkins....

Look at some of his other recent selections..

Schremp, Dubnyk, Gagner, Cogliano, etc...

The one pick that deserves praise is Peckam @ 75th. Great pick.

To propose that Tambo has done a better job than Burke because he was fortunate to have a couple of easy choice 1st overall picks land in his lap is a stretch.

This also goes to Burke comments in regards to Crosby. The pens won a lottery and the best player in the world fell into their laps.

Didn't take much hockey savvy to say " With our first selection in this years draft, the Pittsburg Penguins choose Sidney Crosby."

I'm not saying Tambellini is a great hockey mind, Jig.

I'm saying that he's building the franchise in a manner that gives you the best chance of success in the shortest amout of time.

To me, the most important thing in building a franchise, is assembling a core that is capable of winning. That's what Tambellini is doing.

My biggest beef with Wilson was that imo, he was incapable of taking the Leafs all the way.

Burke, due to his miscalculations, has assembled a faulty core which imo is incapable of going all the way.

Don't be fooled by the fact that Edmonton has been finishing last for the last few years. They are way ahead of the Leafs in their rebuild.

[jigson]

I'm not saying Tambellini is a great hockey mind, Jig.

I'm saying that he's building the franchise in a manner that gives you the best chance of success in the shortest amout of time.

To me, the most important thing in building a franchise, is assembling a core that is capable of winning. That's what Tambellini is doing.

My biggest beef with Wilson was that imo, he was incapable of taking the Leafs all the way.

Burke, due to his miscalculations, has assembled a faulty core which imo is incapable of going all the way.

Don't be fooled by the fact that Edmonton has been finishing last for the last few years. They are way ahead of the Leafs in their rebuild.

You may be right, but I'll believe it when I see it.

Aside from the couple of pretty baubles in Edmt, I don't see a team that is anywhere near complete.

At this point I see the leafs closer to being competitive than the Oilers, but of course it hinges on the ability of Burke to complete the plan, and as you mentioned, it may be easier for Lambo to pick up the secondary players than for Burke to acquire the two or three pieces he still needs.

SHould be an interesting summer and camp either way.

[sluggo]

You may be right, but I'll believe it when I see it.

Aside from the couple of pretty baubles in Edmt, I don't see a team that is anywhere near complete.

At this point I see the leafs closer to being competitive than the Oilers, but of course it hinges on the ability of Burke to complete the plan, and as you mentioned, it may be easier for Lambo to pick up the secondary players than for Burke to acquire the two or three pieces he still needs.

SHould be an interesting summer and camp either way.

People said the same thing about the Penguins, Captails, Blackhawks, Kings etc....

The Oilers may not become a successful franchise, but unlike the Leafs they have the most important and hard to find tools and pieces. The challenge for the Oilers will be to find the correct and right complementry pieces.

The leafs are not closer to being competitive and the only way you see that is because your blue and white goggles are obstructive your vision. The kind of talent Burke needs to add is extremely hard to find, and because of contract restrictions hes put on himself, thej ob will be even harder.

[sluggo]

I'm not saying Tambellini is a great hockey mind, Jig.

I'm saying that he's building the franchise in a manner that gives you the best chance of success in the shortest amout of time.

To me, the most important thing in building a franchise, is assembling a core that is capable of winning. That's what Tambellini is doing.

My biggest beef with Wilson was that imo, he was incapable of taking the Leafs all the way.

Burke, due to his miscalculations, has assembled a faulty core which imo is incapable of going all the way.

Don't be fooled by the fact that Edmonton has been finishing last for the last few years. They are way ahead of the Leafs in their rebuild.

Inpatience, not miscalculations. Burke thought he could add Kessel and the leafs would be a playoff team. If he had taken the "5 year rebuilding plan route", in addition to Schenn who was already here, he could have added Kane (by not getting Gerber at his first deadline). Seguin and Knight his first full season here and Hamilton his second season here by not making the Kessel deal, plus whoever they'll get this year.

That looks like a pretty solid core of young talent to me.

[J-BOLD]

Inpatience, not miscalculations. Burke thought he could add Kessel and the leafs would be a playoff team. If he had taken the "5 year rebuilding plan route", in addition to Schenn who was already here, he could have added Kane (by not getting Gerber at his first deadline). Seguin and Knight his first full season here and Hamilton his second season here by not making the Kessel deal, plus whoever they'll get this year.

That looks like a pretty solid core of young talent to me.

Too bad you agreed with Burke when he first made that trade, huh.

[KevinMcLellan]

I don't see Semin coming to the Leafs and if he did I'm not sure he would produce enough. He's better suited playing in a place like Detroit where he can play on a line with fellow country man Datsyuk. Semin seems to play better when its for his country rather than his team, maybe having one of the most respectful and admired Russians on his line would spark him, or Datsyuk could just kick him in the *** when he needs it.

[sluggo]

I don't see Semin coming to the Leafs and if he did I'm not sure he would produce enough. He's better suited playing in a place like Detroit where he can play on a line with fellow country man Datsyuk. Semin seems to play better when its for his country rather than his team, maybe having one of the most respectful and admired Russians on his line would spark him, or Datsyuk could just kick him in the *** when he needs it.

The Wings like players who play in all 3 zones, that isn't Semin.

I doubt him playing well has anything to do with playing with a Russian, its more about playing an open, free-flowing, offensive system.

[J-BOLD]

I don't see Semin coming to the Leafs and if he did I'm not sure he would produce enough. He's better suited playing in a place like Detroit where he can play on a line with fellow country man Datsyuk. Semin seems to play better when its for his country rather than his team, maybe having one of the most respectful and admired Russians on his line would spark him, or Datsyuk could just kick him in the *** when he needs it.

I agree. They had some solid chemistry at the Worlds.


Semin would fit nicely in Detroit.

[Euronuck]

You preach to be patient with Burke; and yet you have no patience with Tambellini.

Tambellini is doing it the right way.

Burke has assembled a bunch of ancillary parts, to which he must add a solid core. He is now realizing how diffucult it is to acquire those important core players.

Tambellini, on the other hand, has acquired those difficult core parts where they are easiest to find, namely, in the draft.

Tha ancillary parts are not needed yet; and that's why they are finishing last.

When the time is right, those parts will be easy to get; and the team will come together very quickly, very quickly indeed.

So which way is exactly the right way to do it? Cause I'm sure 29 other GM's would like to know that little tidbit of information.

[jockdent]

So which way is exactly the right way to do it? Cause I'm sure 29 other GM's would like to know that little tidbit of information.

Obviously, there is more than one way to skin a cat.

I just think It's a lot easier to find really good core players in the draft; than it is to trade for them, or to sign them as UFA's.

The crux of this argument depends on your opinion of the Leafs' present core.

Let me ask you this, Euro.

Who do you think makes up our present core; and do you think they have the stuff to eventually win a Stanley Cup?

[Euronuck]

Obviously, there is more than one way to skin a cat.

I just think It's a lot easier to find really good core players in the draft; than it is to trade for them, or to sign them as UFA's.

The crux of this argument depends on your opinion of the Leafs' present core.

Let me ask you this, Euro.

Who do you think makes up our present core; and do you think they have the stuff to eventually win a Stanley Cup?

Lupul, Kessel, Grabovski, Kulemin, Gardiner, Phaneuf.

To a lesser extent, Gunnarsson, Franson, Bozak, Crabb, Brown.

[sluggo]

Lupul, Kessel, Grabovski, Kulemin, Gardiner, Phaneuf.

To a lesser extent, Gunnarsson, Franson, Bozak, Crabb, Brown.

So thats the core, and do you really think that group can compete with the top teams in the NHL? They certainly weren't this year, and I don't see those players getting much, if any, better.