43 replies to this topic

[Rollntroll]

Don't know 'bout you but I've had enough! We've endured sub par hockey as Leaf fans for quite some time so bring on the 'replacements'. With all the 'scabs'(yes, scabs!) playing where ever and calling it 'staying fit', its time to watch hockey again. Bring over the Euros or whoever else wants to try. I wanna see and hear Don Cherry again. I wanna see hockey. I'm tired of raking fallen leafs!

[Seer]

Watch the Marlie games, Rollin'... The AHL is a pretty exciting League this season...

[IrishLeaffan]

I agree. Bring in replacements. I support the players usually, but here I think they are expecting too much. They are paid too much and they will continually want more. That only pushes up the tickets prices. Time for the players to get realistic.

[Seer]

Easy solution...

Just throw all the AHL players up into the NHL..., give them the old CBA salaries.. and then.. shove all the NHL players back to the AHL.. and give them AHL salaries...

Bet they would change their tune pretty fast with that pay cut..!

LOL! I know this isn't possible, but it would sure give a few of them a big "reality check & cheque" !!

[DocJ167]

I agree. Bring in replacements. I support the players usually, but here I think they are expecting too much. They are paid too much and they will continually want more. That only pushes up the tickets prices. Time for the players to get realistic.

Unreal.

I can't imagine why any of you would care in the slightest. It would seem that only hockey fans would care..

Hockey fans supporting a(nother) (3 in total now) Gary Bettman orchestrated lockout is like chickens lining up to support Col. Sanders.

For anyone else that's nearly this clueless: this isn't a strike. The players don't stand to gain anything. Only attempting to lose less of what they already have.

The players don't need to take a salary rollback. They already have. The last time Gary locked the doors to Canada's game.

Whatching canadians support Gary Bettman's endless cycle of lockouts is mind numbinging in the sheer scope of it's ignorance.

And then there's this:

The replacement player scenario would likely begin with the league declaring a negotiating impasse - a claim that its dispute with the players cannot be resolved through collective bargaining. It could then impose new terms of employment without consulting the NHL Players' Association.

The Players' Association would almost certainly challenge that move by filing a complaint with the National Labor Relations Board in the United States. That would begin a process of appeals and hearings that could take months, to determine whether the NHL has negotiated in good faith throughout the dispute.
If the NLRB rules in favour of the Players' Association, the two sides would return to bargaining. If it rules in favor of the NHL, the league would have the right to impose its last, best collective bargaining offer and open for business under those terms.

After losing the appeal, the players could go on strike. Another option for the NHLPA would be to decertify - cease to exist - leaving individual to decide whether to return to the NHL. Former NHLPA members could then attempt to sue the NHL under anti-trust laws, particularly if salaries took a big hit under the new arrangement.
Under either scenario, the league could try to use non-NHLers as replacement players. But Quebec and British Columbia do not allow replacement workers in most circumstances.

Also, Canada and U.S. laws forbid the use of replacement workers from outside the country, which could leave U.S. teams restricted to using American players and Canadian teams restricted to Canadian players. And could those players cross borders to play games?

.

[roadtoglory]

Unreal.

I can't imagine why any of you would care in the slightest. It would seem that only hockey fans would care..

Hockey fans supporting a(nother) (3 in total now) Gary Bettman orchestrated lockout is like chickens lining up to support Col. Sanders.

For anyone else that's nearly this clueless: this isn't a strike. The players don't stand to gain anything. Only attempting to lose less of what they already have.

The players don't need to take a salary rollback. They already have. The last time Gary locked the doors to Canada's game.

Whatching canadians support Gary Bettman's endless cycle of lockouts is mind numbinging in the sheer scope of it's ignorance.





.

The players need to sign a new contract. The one in which they took a roll back is over (and in the end it didn't turn out too bad for the players).

[DocJ167]

The players need to sign a new contract. The one in which they took a roll back is over (and in the end it didn't turn out too bad for the players).

Yep. They need to just shut up and sign a new deal where:

Their current contracts aren't honored as they were signed.
They see new limits on ELCs.
They see more years added until UFA.
They see more arbitration restrictions.
They see a max term imposed on contracts.
They see additional restraints on contract structure.
All while already agreeing to lesser future percentage.

And the owners give what again?
Oh yes, the owners give a promise to lock the doors and do it again once this CBA is up as well, right?

Once could be chance.
Twice could be coincidence.
Three times, is a pattern.

A pattern that shouldn't elude the average 8 year old.
Open your eyes. Look around.

[H-B-C-Y-G]

These place just got pretty intense pretty fast...

I don't get the people who say they're hate that there's no hockey when Juniors and the AHL are up and running though. Agreed, that it would help of the networks actually pick up more than 1 game a week but it's still a much better product than we'd get from the ECHL guys that they would bring in instead.

[Rollntroll]

These place just got pretty intense pretty fast...

I don't get the people who say they're hate that there's no hockey when Juniors and the AHL are up and running though. Agreed, that it would help of the networks actually pick up more than 1 game a week but it's still a much better product than we'd get from the ECHL guys that they would bring in instead.

Have you watched the ECHL lately? It isn't just the 'game' its the broadcast quality that no other league in the world can match. The O, the AHL, Echl, etc are all exciting but lack 'hoopla and Don'. If those games were broadcast with the NHL quality it would make a huge difference.I do not support NHL players(scabs) playing in other leagues due to 'lockout'. Suck it up and workout at your local North American arena and stop taking work from your fellow hockey players overseas! Its all 'fun and games' until one of the 'scabs' comes back injured.

[racer888]

Have you watched the ECHL lately? It isn't just the 'game' its the broadcast quality that no other league in the world can match. The O, the AHL, Echl, etc are all exciting but lack 'hoopla and Don'. If those games were broadcast with the NHL quality it would make a huge difference.I do not support NHL players(scabs) playing in other leagues due to 'lockout'. Suck it up and workout at your local North American arena and stop taking work from your fellow hockey players overseas! Its all 'fun and games' until one of the 'scabs' comes back injured.

I couldn't agree more. Millionare's taking the pay cheques from Journey man players. maybe we could take up a collection for these poor NHL stars if the need the money so bad.......makes me sick

[roadtoglory]

Yep. They need to just shut up and sign a new deal where:

Their current contracts aren't honored as they were signed.
They see new limits on ELCs.
They see more years added until UFA.
They see more arbitration restrictions.
They see a max term imposed on contracts.
They see additional restraints on contract structure.
All while already agreeing to lesser future percentage.

And the owners give what again?
Oh yes, the owners give a promise to lock the doors and do it again once this CBA is up as well, right?

Once could be chance.
Twice could be coincidence.
Three times, is a pattern.

A pattern that shouldn't elude the average 8 year old.
Open your eyes. Look around.

My eyes are wide open, thank you Doc. But as I said, the contract has expired and a new one needs to be signed. All things are open for negotiation. I agree though, that all existing individual contracts should be honoured.

But, changes to the CBA are not all going to go in the player's favour.

[DocJ167]

My eyes are wide open, thank you Doc. But as I said, the contract has expired and a new one needs to be signed.

All things are open for negotiation.

I agree though, that all existing individual contracts should be honoured.

But, changes to the CBA are not all going to go in the player's favour.

Except that "all things aren't open for negotiation", are they?

Unless you're the players. Then literally every single issue is on the table.

And on the other side?
That's right, nothing.

You see, this isn't a negotiation. The league isn't looking for "compromise" or "concessions". It's a hostage situation. Bettman & the owners are simply holding the game hostage until all demands are met.

Again.
For the third consecutive time.

So this league doesn't need replacement players.
But it could use some replacement fans.

Ones capable of basic pattern recognition.
Ones capable of grasping the concept accountability.
And ones that are well informed, passionate, and have grown tired of the cycle.

The fact that far too many "fans" are apparently none of these, has lead the sport to where it is currently, and ensures that Bettman & co will have no reservations about locking the doors again for a fourth time.

[roadtoglory]

Except that "all things aren't open for negotiation", are they?

Unless you're the players. Then literally every single issue is on the table.

And on the other side?
That's right, nothing.

You see, this isn't a negotiation. The league isn't looking for "compromise" or "concessions". It's a hostage situation. Bettman & the owners are simply holding the game hostage until all demands are met.

Again.
For the third consecutive time.

So this league doesn't need replacement players.
But it could use some replacement fans.

Ones capable of basic pattern recognition.
Ones capable of grasping the concept accountability.
And ones that are well informed, passionate, and have grown tired of the cycle.

The fact that far too many "fans" are apparently none of these, has lead the sport to where it is currently, and ensures that Bettman & co will have no reservations about locking the doors again for a fourth time.

You're so extreme in your views that I get the feeling you're one of the locked out players.

Blaming fans for this lockout is a little on the strange side. To sneer at the fans who ultimately pay all hockey related revenue is wrong. Your attitude is a lot like the players. They have a sense of entitlement that they need to get past. Calling these negotiations a "hostage" situation is overly dramatic, don't you think?

If the owners want a larger piece of the pie and refuse to pay more than the 50 / 50 split that's on the table now, then the union has to find ways of dealing with this reality. For instance, if the players agreed that the 50 / 50 split start immediately then it's possible that other parts of the new CBA to do with UFA, contract limits and so on can be negotiated more in the player's favour. And let's face it, the owners are so stupid that they'll find ways to sabotage their own agreement with the players anyway.

The fact that Gary Bettman only knows one way to negotiate, and that's with a gun to the head of the union, is no major revelation. You aren't telling me anything I didn't know. And to think that if negotiations had started months ago, or the season started as usual while the two sides negotiated a new CBA , all of this could have been avoided. This season could have produced upwards of 3.5 to 4 billion dollars and everyone would have been happy. How insanely greedy can people get?

[racer888]

Except that "all things aren't open for negotiation", are they?

Unless you're the players. Then literally every single issue is on the table.

And on the other side?
That's right, nothing.

You see, this isn't a negotiation. The league isn't looking for "compromise" or "concessions". It's a hostage situation. Bettman & the owners are simply holding the game hostage until all demands are met.

Again.
For the third consecutive time.

So this league doesn't need replacement players.
But it could use some replacement fans.

Ones capable of basic pattern recognition.
Ones capable of grasping the concept accountability.
And ones that are well informed, passionate, and have grown tired of the cycle.

The fact that far too many "fans" are apparently none of these, has lead the sport to where it is currently, and ensures that Bettman & co will have no reservations about locking the doors again for a fourth time.

Most fans understand all to well how stupid the owners are and how greedy the players are. The owners didn't get it right the last time and allowed GM's the opening to get around the cap by offering the players crazy dollar and term contracts. that is the owners stupidity. The players want the owners to continue that trend and are not prepared to get rid of that loop hole even though many in the work place have to do more with less........but oh no not the players they want it all. I find it very hard to have any sympathy for guys making Millions playing the game they love. There is a new economic reality in the world right now and the players need to learn that
Yours truly
A dedicated "fan"

[DocJ167]

Most fans understand all to well how stupid the owners are and how greedy the players are. The owners didn't get it right the last time and allowed GM's the opening to get around the cap by offering the players crazy dollar and term contracts. that is the owners stupidity. The players want the owners to continue that trend and are not prepared to get rid of that loop hole even though many in the work place have to do more with less........but oh no not the players they want it all. I find it very hard to have any sympathy for guys making Millions playing the game they love. There is a new economic reality in the world right now and the players need to learn that
Yours truly
A dedicated "fan"

It's quite funny that you could "find it very hard to feel sympathy for guys making millions playing the game", while throwing your lot in with the billion dollar baby brigade. You can't simply be born into a spot at centre ice in Madison square garden. You can however be born into a last name that puts you in the owners box. Take a quick look around the league.

It's amazing that you can fault these "stupid" owners for circumventing their own cap, but it's the players that should fix it? The owners just can't be expected to act responsibly, right?

Claiming that the players "want it all" sounds great. Now, if you can pinpoint a single area where the players are looking for a concession, or stand to "gain" anything at all that they don't already have, the statement would have merit. As it is, it has exactly none.

Again, negotiations that see one side demanding concessions in every area, while offering absolutely none in return, aren't in fact, negotiations at all. Just another money grab and power play, by those born into enough wealth to lock the doors and wait it out, headed up by the least successful commissioner any major professional sport has ever seen, who's made this his legacy. An endless cycle of lockouts and canceled games.

This latest lockout cannot be "blamed" on the fans, nor has that been suggested. Its quite clear that bettman & co couldn't give even the tiniest plop about the fans, or what they think. It is however very sad to see his methods authenticated, and his resolve emboldened by a misinformed, and/or apathetic fan base that should know better, at least by now.

But the very existence of a thread like this would seem to indicate that more than a few "fans" have the league and commissioner that they deserve. And all that comes with it.

[H-B-C-Y-G]

Have you watched the ECHL lately? It isn't just the 'game' its the broadcast quality that no other league in the world can match. The O, the AHL, Echl, etc are all exciting but lack 'hoopla and Don'. If those games were broadcast with the NHL quality it would make a huge difference.I do not support NHL players(scabs) playing in other leagues due to 'lockout'. Suck it up and workout at your local North American arena and stop taking work from your fellow hockey players overseas! Its all 'fun and games' until one of the 'scabs' comes back injured.

I haven't watched the ECHL. Which conveniently fits my main point that putting those players in NHL jerseys adds even less "hoopla" and interest than the MUCH better leagues we already have up and running in North America. Remember the NFL refs? That didn't necessarily make the league look better. Imagine the embarrassment of a Stanley Cup final of scabs just to make a point...

If the NHL isn't going to dress their actual players, it's just not the NHL. I simply prefer the substance of guys whose names we will hear beyond the lockout over the flashy/glossy beer commercials just for flashy beer commercials sake even if that means I have to sit through a grainy Kal-Tire ad instead.

[racer888]

It's quite funny that you could "find it very hard to feel sympathy for guys making millions playing the game", while throwing your lot in with the billion dollar baby brigade. You can't simply be born into a spot at centre ice in Madison square garden. You can however be born into a last name that puts you in the owners box. Take a quick look around the league.

It's amazing that you can fault these "stupid" owners for circumventing their own cap, but it's the players that should fix it? The owners just can't be expected to act responsibly, right?

Claiming that the players "want it all" sounds great. Now, if you can pinpoint a single area where the players are looking for a concession, or stand to "gain" anything at all that they don't already have, the statement would have merit. As it is, it has exactly none.

Again, negotiations that see one side demanding concessions in every area, while offering absolutely none in return, aren't in fact, negotiations at all. Just another money grab and power play, by those born into enough wealth to lock the doors and wait it out, headed up by the least successful commissioner any major professional sport has ever seen, who's made this his legacy. An endless cycle of lockouts and canceled games.

This latest lockout cannot be "blamed" on the fans, nor has that been suggested. Its quite clear that bettman & co couldn't give even the tiniest plop about the fans, or what they think. It is however very sad to see his methods authenticated, and his resolve emboldened by a misinformed, and/or apathetic fan base that should know better, at least by now.

But the very existence of a thread like this would seem to indicate that more than a few "fans" have the league and commissioner that they deserve. And all that comes with it.

I am as disgusted at the owners as I am the players, but the fact remains the owners have the half Billion or so invested in infrastructure. As far as the players not wanting any more...well of course not they already have the sweet deal. All the loop holes the circumvent the cap need to be closed. Just think of all the people that are out of work because the Owners and Players are fighting over how to split the Billions. I almost have sympathy for the lower paid journeyman players. Its the top of the food chain players that could stand to make a little less that are holding the whole thing up. I could almost have some sympathy if all the players had stayed home to show support for each other instead of bolting for over seas to steal jobs while their lower paid counter parts at home go without their pay

[CrazyCanuckEh]

The league can't legally bring in scab players in Canada or the USA, doing so is a violation of labor laws when the workers union is not on strike. The owners locked the players out, therefor no one can play without permission from the union and I am 100% positive that the union would drag Bettman, Daly and the 29 owners into the courts in both countries and fight them into submission. Both federal labor boards in Canada and the USA could easily find the owners not acting in good faith with the collective bargaining sessions, every one has been pretty much one side demanding from the other and the owners have been far worse with the demands while the players have flexed considerably more.

[H-B-C-Y-G]

^
That's a fairly considerable roadblock too haha

[roadtoglory]

I don't think bringing in scab players has ever been a serious consideration by the owners anyway.

I also found a definition of "bargaining in good faith". It wouldn't let me copy and paste but the meaning is basically, that "the parties to a contract, regularly meet and discuss with a willingness to reach an accord on proposed new contract terms. It does not necessarily mean that any party is required to make a concession or agree to any proposal".

So by that definition, neither the players nor the owners are guilty of bargaining in bad faith.

And the good news is that they are bargaining at all. I've got a good feeling about these talks.