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Lupul or JVR with Kessel?


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#1 cokenfries

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 04:35 AM

It might be early for this discussion to take place but wanted to find out your opinion on this. When Lupul comes back from injury would you send JVR down and put Lupul back on the first line with Kessel or would you try to fit Lupul on the second line?

#2 Buncky

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 04:40 AM

I don't mind both, maybe switch them around, or put lupul with grabo and kulimen to get them going as well

#3 trueleaffan

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 04:43 AM

It might be early for this discussion to take place but wanted to find out your opinion on this. When Lupul comes back from injury would you send JVR down and put Lupul back on the first line with Kessel or would you try to fit Lupul on the second line?

1st Line
Kessel Bozak JVR

2nd Line
Lupul Kadri Frattin

3rd line (Checking Line), they've been very good so far playing this role
Kuli Grabo Komo

4th line
Orr McClemment Brown/Mclaren

Extra, Mac (somebody else will be injured by then anyway), Stecks
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#4 trueleaffan

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 04:44 AM

I don't mind both, maybe switch them around, or put lupul with grabo and kulimen to get them going as well

Grabo and Kuli are playing perfect. Everynight they face the other teams top forwards and they are playing well, especially since Komo is on their line. Carlyle realizes this and thats why they get so much ice time. Its not all about offense.
"I guarantee we'll win tonight."
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#5 nodoubtabouter

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 04:55 AM

Lups is the vet he will get his spot back im sure, JVR is obviously showing he can be a first liner though...sweet dangle tonight

#6 MaximumTaco

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 04:58 AM

JVR is our leading goal scorer. And oddly enough Kessel leads our team in assists. I don't see how we can split them up in good conscience.

Loops can make any line better. I'd love to see his finish paired with Nazem's hands and Frattin's checking.
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#7 Zizzzzy

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 05:15 AM

Lupul-JVR-Kessel

There.. I said it lol

Honestly I think Lupul, JVR, Frattin, and Mac are all players that would pair good with Kessel since they are all very good at finishing his quick pass one timers

With Kadri showing he can do the same, we have some good options to make some solid scoring lines

#8 cokenfries

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 05:20 AM

In my opinion its Kessel who can make any decent player look good. Lupul never scored 68 points in his career, JVR never played first line and even Bozak, who is a third line center at best look real good playing with Kessel.

I think Kessel is probably as important for us as Spezza is for Ottawa. They looked like a contender until they lost him to injury, now they look like a bottom feeder.

#9 Pawchio

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 05:31 AM

lupul coming back just gives the line up more looks. all 4 lines are running smoothly but its never a problem to have more good players available.

#10 Schennanigans

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 06:10 AM

I would imagine Carlyle will probably do a little shuffling to ease Lupul back into game shape when he returns but he will likely end up back on the 1st line . The system they play seems to have gone through some tweaks since Lupul got injured so it will depend on how fast Lupul adjusts . The thing about contemplating the future line up is you never know what other injuries might happen to affect the outcome .
Carlyle seems to have the team playing as a unit but changing a line up spot shouldn't be a problem and Lupul is every bit as capable as JVR or Kessel . So why not try JVR and Lupul with Bozak and forget about the possibility of making Kessel a center piece for speculation .

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#11 sluggo

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:50 PM

With how kadri, Frattin and van Riemsdyk are producing, the smart move when lupul comes back to move Kessel (before he becomes over paid) in a package to bring in the core center or dman they need.


You never see Coke taking a shot at Pepsi

#12 Sonny_l_Styles

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 12:58 PM

In my opinion its Kessel who can make any decent player look good. Lupul never scored 68 points in his career, JVR never played first line and even Bozak, who is a third line center at best look real good playing with Kessel.

I think Kessel is probably as important for us as Spezza is for Ottawa. They looked like a contender until they lost him to injury, now they look like a bottom feeder.

Kessel could be out of this lineup and no one would notice. He's an insignificant element on a team that plays this way.

He's kinda like gravy with a coke and fries. Nice to have, but not neccessary.

#13 Zizzzzy

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 02:19 PM

With how kadri, Frattin and van Riemsdyk are producing, the smart move when lupul comes back to move Kessel (before he becomes over paid) in a package to bring in the core center or dman they need.


Kessel could be out of this lineup and no one would notice. He's an insignificant element on a team that plays this way.

He's kinda like gravy with a coke and fries. Nice to have, but not neccessary.


My god you guys need to stop tunnel visioning on goals scored. How many goals has he set up? You do realize he is tied as our top point producer right? insignificant element my ***.

#14 sluggo

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 02:50 PM




My god you guys need to stop tunnel visioning on goals scored. How many goals has he set up? You do realize he is tied as our top point producer right? insignificant element my ***.


probably 3 or 4.

He isn't that important. The guys who are producing and thriving under Carlyle are the ones who play with an edge and are two-way players. With the window to move him closing, and then the only options being to overpay him or lose for him nothing, using him to bring a real center to play between Lupul and van Riemsdyk is the best way to use him.
You never see Coke taking a shot at Pepsi

#15 Leafs_HUMMER

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 02:56 PM

Its funny. shortly before I came to the forum today I was thinking about this. Leaf fans think alike I suppose. I would keep JVR with Kessel and then put Lupul with Kadri and Frattin. maybe Macarthur is tradeable now with Komarov being very consistent every night. He also fits nicely with Kulemin and Grabo. And that checking line is BEAST. Yup, Mac can go along with Komi for a draft pick or two. :) I like Mac, but he's expendable now. And the Leafs should stockpile a few draft picks.

#16 Seer

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 03:20 PM

Lupul-JVR-Kessel

There.. I said it lol

Honestly I think Lupul, JVR, Frattin, and Mac are all players that would pair good with Kessel since they are all very good at finishing his quick pass one timers

With Kadri showing he can do the same, we have some good options to make some solid scoring lines

I don't think this is a completely impossible suggestion, Ziz... It has been mentioned many times during off season & season start.., but it has never been tried, because Bozie is doing so good in the face-off circle..

That's really the biggest difference between other forwards and centers.. The face-offs.. I suggest trying something completely different with the positions, though...

Bozie, Kadri & Kess are really not that much difference in height & size... If Kess could learn to be a good face-off guy, JVR-Kess-Lupes could be a dominant 1st line.., with two big bodies beside Kessel.. to make more room... If this doesn't work, I am pretty sure that either Lupes and/or JVR could take the face-offs..

We are coming into a bit of a scenario, though... With Brown coming back..., and eventually Lupes..., someone will either have to be traded or sent down to the Marlies... and I could see us loosing someone on waivers..., if this happens.. If we had to, I could see Mac & Bozie being traded, but it could come back to bite us in the hiney, in the future.., so it would have to be a REALLY good trade coming back.. Personally.., I think it should wait until closer to the April deadline, so we can evaluate what we already have a little closer... (unless... it is something that requires immediate action... and Reims ends up being out for a long while.. But, I don't think that will be the case..)..

Expendable..? That's a hard question right now..., with the way everyone has been playing.. The suggestions of stockpiling draft picks seems a little irrelevant right now, if you haven't been keeping track of our prospects.. As long as we keep the first pick for this year, I think we have many other future Leafs already in the system.. We could use a TLC and a vet. goalie back up... and a draft pick won't get us that right away... It would be a 3-4 year wait to just see IF that player will graduate to the NHL..

As far as what someone mentioned above..., I guess they don't watch games very closely, because you don't get 9 assists from helping out on 3-4 goals..

You also don't trade away your top point producer..(when he has improved his defensive game.., is still young... and can improve further) ...and expect to attract future "young" FA's... You would be sending a signal that "no contract is secure/stable" in Toronto.., even if you play good..

But.., some people just have to grasp at straws and complain, when they have already been proven wrong on so many things already.. and haven't got the maturity to admit it.., now do they...?

Love your posts in here, Ziz.. Kudos! For being a real fan... and not some Grouch who just likes to cause trouble..

SPEED IS YOUR FRIEND, MAPLE LEAFS..! USE IT IN EVERY GAME..!!


#17 sluggo

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 03:26 PM

I don't think this is a completely impossible suggestion, Ziz... It has been mentioned many times during off season & season start.., but it has never been tried, because Bozie is doing so good in the face-off circle..

That's really the biggest difference between other forwards and centers.. The face-offs.. I suggest trying something completely different with the positions, though...

Bozie, Kadri & Kess are really not that much difference in height & size... If Kess could learn to be a good face-off guy, JVR-Kess-Lupes could be a dominant 1st line.., with two big bodies beside Kessel.. to make more room... If this doesn't work, I am pretty sure that either Lupes and/or JVR could take the face-offs..

We are coming into a bit of scenario, though... With Brown coming back..., and eventually Lupes..., someone will either have to be traded or sent down to the Marlies... and I could see us loosing someone on waivers..., if this happens..

Expendable..? That's a hard question right now..., with the way everyone has been playing.. The suggestions of stockpiling draft picks seems a little irrelevant right now, if you haven't been keeping track of our prospects.. As long as we keep the first pick for this year, I think we have many other future Leafs already in the system.. We could use a TLC and a vet. goalie back up... and a draft pick won't get us that right away... It would be a 3-4 year wait to just see IF that player will graduate to the NHL..

As far as what someone mentioned above..., I guess they don't watch games very closely, because you don't get 9 assists from helping out on 3-4 goals..

You also don't trade away your top point producer..(when he has improved his defensive game.., is still young... and can improve further) ...and expect to attract future "young" FA's... You would be sending a signal that "no contract is secure/stable" in Toronto.., even if you play good..

But.., some people just have to grasp at straws and complain, when they have already been proven wrong on so many things already.. and haven't got the maturity to admit it.., now do they...?

Love your posts in here, Ziz.. Kudos! For being a real fan... and not some Grouch who just likes to cause trouble..


Sure you do. Assists are given out like candy in the NHL. Kessel could touch the puck, give to someone else to makes a great pass and/or play, then ANOTHER player scores and Kessel would/could get an assist. Thats not "setting up" a goal.

The signal you think would be sent, its laughable. Just another silly reason/excuse to keep a player you like but you have no real argument to keep. They sent Finger to the minors remember? Shouldn't that keep UFA's away? What about Connolly? Why would any player wnat to sign here if you could be sent to the minors after a medicore/bad season? Lets here you make the case to bring Connolly back to the NHL before the Leafs rep on the UFA market is ruined.

Being traded is part of the job and players get (even if you don't) that sometimes a team trades you, even if you playing well, to address other needs or holes.

We all know you don't like to admit when you're wrong seer, and that you're wrong a lot. You don't have to reference it yourself.
You never see Coke taking a shot at Pepsi

#18 Pawchio

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 03:58 PM

yes all of JVR's and bozak goals were unassisted and not set up. JVR was always the leading goal scorer in philly...lupul always had great offensive years before coming to play with the leafs and kessel. but kessel should still be the first one traded. kessel is playing well and is well incorporated into this team even with carlyle as coach.

#19 RPaj

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 04:04 PM

JVR has the ability moreso to take over a game, so I'd prefer him with Kessel. Not to mention JVR is just more skilled so only makes sense to have him with someone like Kessel, they've been playing great together.

#20 sluggo

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Posted 12 February 2013 - 04:17 PM

yes all of JVR's and bozak goals were unassisted and not set up. JVR was always the leading goal scorer in philly...lupul always had great offensive years before coming to play with the leafs and kessel. but kessel should still be the first one traded. kessel is playing well and is well incorporated into this team even with carlyle as coach.


Kessel's game went into the crapper when Lupul got hurt last year (even more so then it already was). Did I say all their goals were unassisted? Why is it you have to make up an argument and you can't deal with what really being said? Is your position that weak?

Kessel has the 1st assist on 3 of van Riemsdyks goals and the 2nd on 1. At least one of those goals he has the first assist on, van Riemsdyk got the puck and drove the net, creating his own play. So you could argue (without seeing them) that Kessel set up 2 of van Riemsdyk's goals.

The offense being generated by other players (kadri, Frattin, van Riemsdyk mainly) means that the sniper who only has 2 goals can be shopped for a #1 center with little, if any, affect on the teams offense. As I said in another thread, the Kings need offense, if you can swap Kessel for Mike Richards, get a very good, top line center who suits Carlyles system better then Kessel does while holding onto 3 of the 4 players in double digets in points, and 4 of your top 5 goal scoreres..... ultimately you aren't giving up that much to bring in a player that fills a hole and fixes a need. And you know what, that center (Richards or whoever) will be able to pass the puck to van Riemsdyk.........
You never see Coke taking a shot at Pepsi






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