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Kessel - Seguin Trade Revisited


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#61 IrishLeaffan

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 03:49 PM

Sorry, but you are incorrect. Picks for a player can turn out one of two ways, either extremely lucrative for the team that got the picks, or extremely poorly. Jared Knight is at least 2 years away from making the NHL and on that Bruins roster he has a lot of competition. Seguin got shipped out of town, which means that pick didn't work for that team. Kessel coming here has been nothing but positives even when he had scoring droughts, but the last couple of years his consistent play and his ability to improve his two way game has made him a vital asset to this organization. What did Seguin do for Boston the last few years? He wasn't exactly a pivotal player for the team, and he was viewed as being lower on the depth chart because of it.

Also, if you want to use that kind of logic, you can also say that the Bruins won the Stanley Cup with Seguin and went to the finals with him too and the Leafs, with Kessel have not won a round of playoffs since he has been here.

I like Kessel but there is no way we won the trade.



#62 Someonestolemyname

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 04:52 PM

Source: http://www.coppernbl...ple-leaf-greats

 

Ranking Kessel among the all time leaf greats by "era-adjusted points per game". The era adjusting they do, is to simply normalize every year to 3 goals a game average and then adjust the points in that year accordingly. Not the most scientific thing ever, but the results sure are interesting.

 

 

 Player                 Adj. P/G

Charlie Conacher 1.224

Mats Sundin        1.086

Doug Gilmour       1.056

Syl Apps                   1.031

Phil Kessel             1.003

Busher Jackson      0.995

Darryl Sittler          0.953

Norm Ullman         0.854

Lanny McDonald  0.853

Frank Mahovlich   0.849

Ted Kennedy         0.848

Dave Keon              0.800

Rick Vaive               0.777

Max Bentley          0.723


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#63 cheeser123

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 06:02 PM

Source: http://www.coppernbl...ple-leaf-greats

 

Ranking Kessel among the all time leaf greats by "era-adjusted points per game". The era adjusting they do, is to simply normalize every year to 3 goals a game average and then adjust the points in that year accordingly. Not the most scientific thing ever, but the results sure are interesting.

 

 

 Player                 Adj. P/G

Charlie Conacher 1.224

Mats Sundin        1.086

Doug Gilmour       1.056

Syl Apps                   1.031

Phil Kessel             1.003

Busher Jackson      0.995

Darryl Sittler          0.953

Norm Ullman         0.854

Lanny McDonald  0.853

Frank Mahovlich   0.849

Ted Kennedy         0.848

Dave Keon              0.800

Rick Vaive               0.777

Max Bentley          0.723

 

Never heard of any of these guys. Kessel sucks. :lol:


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#64 Someonestolemyname

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 06:05 PM

Never heard of any of these guys. Kessel sucks. :lol:

 

Can't even put up as many points as a guy named "Syl", what a bum!


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#65 Val_James

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 08:17 PM

guys both teams did well... Seguin is gonna be a superstar, Kessel is.... Boston are gonna look stupid for trading him



#66 loaferoatan

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 04:47 AM

"A good trade is where both teams win"- Brian Burke.



#67 Phaneufx03xRulz

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 01:55 PM

Enough already!!!  Does anyone think that it was Burke's plan to finish 2nd last in the league when we got Kessel on board?  No it sure the hell wasn't. I am so sick of people talking about the Kessel trade like that.  We had no All-Star players on our team then and you do what you got to do to get a player like Kessel.  His biggest mistake was signing the players he did that summer, that's why we finished 2nd last.  If it wasn't for those crap players then we would have finished 20th or so which would have gave Boston a 10-13 selection in the draft and you idiots would never be talking about it today. So if you want something to talk about, talk about the BAD Signings that summer because that's the reason Boston got who they did!



#68 AlexanderTheGreatJr

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 02:38 PM

I ATGjr should recieve royalties for my unconditional support for Kessel since day 1.


Not my problem anymore - Brian Burke (former President and G.M of the Toronto Maple Leafs)


#69 racer88

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 05:16 PM

I ATGjr should recieve royalties for my unconditional support for Kessel since day 1.

You should lose them all for supporting Wilson so its a draw. :lol:



#70 hithardandoften

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 05:18 PM

You should lose them all for supporting Wilson so its a draw. :lol:

 

LOL     :huh:  :lol:



#71 murkk

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 10:23 PM

Phil Kessel wasn't traded because the Bruins were unhappy with him. They traded him because they were under a salary cap and needed some assets in return. I think they maximized their assets given the situation. I think we all forget that even though Boston won a cup and has been great, they did so AFTER losing Kessel to a trade and Savard to injury. The Bruins picked Savard over Kessel and probably didn't make the best choice.


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#72 AlexanderTheGreatJr

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 10:45 PM

You should lose them all for supporting Wilson so its a draw. :lol:

And its always the head coach's fault?

Why do i even bother with amateurs?


Not my problem anymore - Brian Burke (former President and G.M of the Toronto Maple Leafs)


#73 ToddLeafsFan

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 02:11 AM

And its always the head coach's fault?

Why do i even bother with amateurs?

Carlyle's a FAR better coach ATGjr.  Its not even close.



#74 trueleaffan

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 03:54 PM

You should lose them all for supporting Wilson so its a draw. :lol:

LOLOL


63 man games lost this season for the Leafs top 3 centers.....


#75 IrishLeaffan

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 04:01 PM

Enough already!!!  Does anyone think that it was Burke's plan to finish 2nd last in the league when we got Kessel on board?  No it sure the hell wasn't. I am so sick of people talking about the Kessel trade like that.  We had no All-Star players on our team then and you do what you got to do to get a player like Kessel.  His biggest mistake was signing the players he did that summer, that's why we finished 2nd last.  If it wasn't for those crap players then we would have finished 20th or so which would have gave Boston a 10-13 selection in the draft and you idiots would never be talking about it today. So if you want something to talk about, talk about the BAD Signings that summer because that's the reason Boston got who they did!

You miss the point. Almost everyone thought that the Leafs were going to finish near or at the bottom and that is why most of us were saying it was a bad trade. It could have even been worse had the Leafs finished near the bottom for the second 1 rounder (although Hamilton is going to be a great dman).

I like Kessel, but that does not make it a good trade. Burke risked too much of the future with that trade. Even if the trade did work out it would have been a very very risky trade and should never have been done.



#76 HiDef

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 04:12 PM

You miss the point. Almost everyone thought that the Leafs were going to finish near or at the bottom and that is why most of us were saying it was a bad trade. It could have even been worse had the Leafs finished near the bottom for the second 1 rounder (although Hamilton is going to be a great dman).

I like Kessel, but that does not make it a good trade. Burke risked too much of the future with that trade. Even if the trade did work out it would have been a very very risky trade and should never have been done.

 

 

I would trade Dallas Kessel for Seguin straight up right now, but I remember that year alot differently than you do.

 

I recall most media and fans having the Leafs just out of the playoffs that year, so it looked really good for us.

 

That said, it was Burkes job to know better than the media and fans.

 

Yes Toskala was a bad goalie, but he took it to another level that year, handing the Bruins a fantastic prize.



#77 IrishLeaffan

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 04:36 PM

I would trade Dallas Kessel for Seguin straight up right now, but I remember that year alot differently than you do.

 

I recall most media and fans having the Leafs just out of the playoffs that year, so it looked really good for us.

 

That said, it was Burkes job to know better than the media and fans.

 

Yes Toskala was a bad goalie, but he took it to another level that year, handing the Bruins a fantastic prize.

Ask anyone on the board back then and I, and many others, were very vocal that the Leafs were not as good as Burke thought. Also, a lot of the media thought so too. I think that the Toronto media might have been putting the Leafs a lot better that the rest of the hockey media.

You are right, Burke should have known the team he had. He thought too much of Wilson and Toskala!



#78 HiDef

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 04:42 PM

Ask anyone on the board back then and I, and many others, were very vocal that the Leafs were not as good as Burke thought. Also, a lot of the media thought so too. I think that the Toronto media might have been putting the Leafs a lot better that the rest of the hockey media.

You are right, Burke should have known the team he had. He thought too much of Wilson and Toskala!

 

 

I find Toronto media to be the hardest on the Leafs over other outlets TBH.

 

The Leafs had enough vets on the team to be a bubble team if Toskala had simply played OK by his standards... That was his worst ever showing, and his ticket out of the NHL.



#79 jamason

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 05:53 PM

If the Leafs were a good team that year, then trading draft picks for a good established player with the ability to be the 'last piece of the puzzle' to make them contenders, is a good idea.  Especially since, in that situation, the draft picks would have been fairly low.

 

If the Leafs were a mediocre team in the early rebuilding stages, trading multiple (potentially) high draft picks for a good player who would be without the appropriate support, is a poor idea.

 

The most significant aspect of the trade was that Burke thought we were in the former situation, whereas we were really in the latter.

 

As opposed to 'good' or 'bad', I think the trade was mainly at the wrong time in our rebuild.

 

Now, with a better coach, better goaltending, and much better defence, would it be a good idea to trade a couple of picks for a gifted forward?  Say, the 'true FLC' that so many people talk about?  Of course!



#80 HiDef

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Posted 15 October 2013 - 06:00 PM

If the Leafs were a good team that year, then trading draft picks for a good established player with the ability to be the 'last piece of the puzzle' to make them contenders, is a good idea.  Especially since, in that situation, the draft picks would have been fairly low.

 

If the Leafs were a mediocre team in the early rebuilding stages, trading multiple (potentially) high draft picks for a good player who would be without the appropriate support, is a poor idea.

 

The most significant aspect of the trade was that Burke thought we were in the former situation, whereas we were really in the latter.

 

As opposed to 'good' or 'bad', I think the trade was mainly at the wrong time in our rebuild.

 

Now, with a better coach, better goaltending, and much better defence, would it be a good idea to trade a couple of picks for a gifted forward?  Say, the 'true FLC' that so many people talk about?  Of course!

 

 

I agree with that point of view if Kessel was in his 30's at the time... as it was, Kessel was the age of most young prospects that had not made the NHL yet.






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